Ok, this is bound to spark a debate, but I am asking this regardless. Please, if you can, provide some reasonably objective angle so that I either disregard this idea or I further research it.
I currently ride on 2008 Tubular Zipp 404F/808R. Is there any combo in FLO’s lineup that is possibly faster than what I have. I could possibly by 3 FLO wheels. But man, when I saw those weights, they are like a concrete slabs, disc 1260g, holly cow. I know ST argument aero over weight, but no way, those weights have to impact the performance even in steady state, rolling hill events.
I know I am asking about comparing apples to oranges, but be patient with me.
Do I consider this even or do I stick with my wheels.
Thanks.
Aero >> weight unless you’re on an extremely hill course. Read this. Flo 60/90 + Flo Disc will be faster then 404FC/808FC under almost all circumstances, let alone a non FC 404/808.
Edit: 808 tubie = 701g + 400g wheelcover = 1101g. 0.35 pounds lighter and similar aerodynamics for double the pricetag of the Flo disc.
Im glad you asked this. I was going to post the exact same thing. Im interested to hear what more knowledgeable people have to say. Zipp 808 w/cover or Flo disc?
its possible they are more aero than the older zipp tubies but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Can you please explain why we shouldnt bet on it? Considering the shape models the designs of the latest wheel manufacturers and used the latest in CFD.
But man, when I saw those weights, they are like a concrete slabs, disc 1260g, holly cow. I know ST argument aero over weight, but no way, those weights have to impact the performance even in steady state, rolling hill events.
HED Jet disc is 1300g. Last I had heard it was pretty fast. More or less aero, I have no idea.
its possible they are more aero than the older zipp tubies but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Can you please explain why we shouldnt bet on it? Considering the shape models the designs of the latest wheel manufacturers and used the latest in CFD.
Just because the shape is similar doesn’t mean its a similar time savings. They may very well be similar, and they very well may not be that close in terms of aerodynamics. They may have done a great job but until a comparison happens its really a shot in the dark.
Can you please explain why we shouldnt bet on it? Considering the shape models the designs of the latest wheel manufacturers and used the latest in CFD.
well if they are an exact copy of firecrest sure you can bet on it.
but they aren’t, the brake tracks are flat for instance, which has a pretty big performance hit if the Jet vs Stinger and old zipp Tubie vs old zipp clincher is any indication.
the jets are also considerably more narrow than the stingers.
id be willing to put money that the flo 6 is faster than the normal sram s60 or zipp 404 with a 23mm tire.
s60 is only clincher i believe, and i’d be willing to make the bet for clinchers as well.
but the zipp 404 tubie? would not be confident betting either way =)
I was a tester for FLO during the prototyping. I am of the belief (based on the limited evidence I was able to compile during my time testing) that the FLO60 wheels are faster than 2010 Stinger 6’s (which are wide profile) and therefore I guessing would be faster than the older 404 tubular.
Can you please explain why we shouldnt bet on it? Considering the shape models the designs of the latest wheel manufacturers and used the latest in CFD.
well if they are an exact copy of firecrest sure you can bet on it.
but they aren’t, the brake tracks are flat for instance, which has a pretty big performance hit if the Jet vs Stinger and old zipp Tubie vs old zipp clincher is any indication.
I’m also not sure Flo had the ‘latest’ in CFD.
They list on their website that they use STAR-CCM+ as the main CFD analysis tool. This is a very high fidelity CFD program that is used by almost all major cycling companies (Cervelo, Felt) and many major aerospace/automobile applications (NASA, Ford, Airbus etc.) And I actually use this program daily. So I would say that the CFD Flo utilized is comparable to the analysis Zipp or HED, Bontrager use for design of their wheels.
For me the decision is easy, if you currently have an 808, throw a disc cover on it. If you are debating buying a new wheel, I would wait until Flo comes out and give it a test ride & check reviews, for the price it seems like the Flo can’t be beat.
I was a tester for FLO during the prototyping. I am of the belief (based on the limited evidence I was able to compile during my time testing) that the FLO60 wheels are faster than 2010 Stinger 6’s (which are wide profile) and therefore I guessing would be faster than the older 404 tubular.
I was a tester for FLO during the prototyping. I am of the belief (based on the limited evidence I was able to compile during my time testing) that the FLO60 wheels are faster than 2010 Stinger 6’s (which are wide profile) and therefore I guessing would be faster than the older 404 tubular.
You know that normally I have no problem at all. Unfortunately, I do not have the old files available for comparison. I have the knowledge of what previous times were at the same body weight and power. The comparisons were in favor of FLO. Like I said, “limited evidence” and “belief.”
On 1/25/12 I was riding FLO 60 (continental gp4000 clincher with butyl tubes) up this climb called “Darby Falls” and set my personal best time of 4:23.
On 1/17/12 I was riding Enve Composites 1.65T front/ 2.65T rear (continental sprinter tubulars, VERY VERY well glued) and set what was a personal best time of 4:34.
Same weight, same bike, identical wind conditions, 2w difference in power (lower power with the FLO 60).
…But man, when I saw those weights, they are like a concrete slabs, disc 1260g, holly cow. I know ST argument aero over weight, but no way, those weights have to impact the performance even in steady state, rolling hill events…
Nah man, don’t worry about the weight, it’s about aero and price and quality and warranty and besides, howardj says yer good up to about 7lbs or more
I received NOTHING for doing this testing. I have not been offered a discount, free wheels, loaner wheels beyond the test, free stickers, etc.
The guys from FLO are good guys and I was curious about their product. They asked if I minded giving them some feedback since I’m a big rider and have a history of putting wheels through their paces.